Interviewer: Deena Jasmine (Chikkmagaluru, Karnataka, India)

Editor: Pooja Vishwanathan (Jhansi, Uttar Pradesh, India)

Rence, aka Jackson Lawrence Hirsh, stands at the crossroads of melody and innovation, crafting alt-pop that connects worlds and challenges limits.

Meet Rence (Jackson Lawrence Hirsh), the creative force behind some of your favorite tracks. Based in Los Angeles, he’s a singer, songwriter, and producer whose music effortlessly blends pop, electronic, and alternative styles. With over 185 million streams and performances at festivals like Lollapalooza, he has made his mark both onstage and behind the scenes.

He’s the voice behind songs like Baby Blue, Ways to Go, Expensive (ft. Noah Cyrus), and Strawberry Blonde. Alongside his own work, Rence has written and produced for global artists, including K-pop stars like NCT’s JAEHYUN, EXO’s Lay, BLACKSWAN, AHOF, and NOWZ. He’s known for his versatility and love of experimenting with new sounds.

In this interview, let’s dive into his journey and the mindset behind the music, while also catching a glimpse of the passion and curiosity that keep him chasing new sounds. 

How did you first discover your love for music, and what drew you to singing, songwriting, and producing?

I fell in love with music from the backseat of a minivan when I was little, listening to the radio, stunned by what was coming out of the speakers. I closed my eyes and listened to a world much bigger than my neighborhood or my background, and was forever hooked. I started producing in late middle school – a friend (Alexi) recommended the DAW Reason, and I was mesmerized by the colors and complexities of the program. From there, I never looked back: I switched to Ableton, and have been producing in some capacity ever since – from 2016 to 2023 I was mostly focused on my artist project, but my main focus at the moment is writing and producing the best songs I can, mostly for K-pop. 

Your music blends pop, electronic, and alternative styles. When you’re making a song, do you usually start with an idea, a feeling, or just let the music take you where it wants to go?

These days, I begin my creative process with a thought: what am I trying to make, or what is the goal of the song I am about to make? For many of my earlier years producing and songwriting, it was a constant push to prove to myself that I “COULD” make song x or a song in the style of y, now it has become a question of “SHOULD” – why should I make this, how does it fit (or not) into the landscape of music, now or in the future?

So, these days my creative process begins with an idea or a feeling, followed by chasing that, with lots of check-ins along the way: “Is this still feeling right/new/interesting?” “Does this feel like the past, present, and future of the artist I’m creating it for or with?” 

Many fans connect deeply with “Baby Blue.” What was the spark or moment that inspired you to create it?

Baby Blue” was forged during a purely creative and exploratory time in my career – I was free of the confines of the traditional music industry (or at least the expectations that come with it), just creating for the sake of it. Julian Lamadrid and I were holed up in our Brooklyn apartment putting sounds together, and the song just poured out naturally. In truth, it’s a bit of a strange song – it has only two chords that alternate back and forth, only one verse, a minute-long steel drum solo, and an abstract, never-mentioned title – but maybe that’s its charm. 

You’ve played at huge festivals like Lollapalooza. Is there a performance moment that still feels unforgettable to you?

While Lollapalooza was perhaps the most meaningful in terms of the growth and progression of my career, traveling around the US playing in cities like Salt Lake or Minneapolis really felt like I was continuously at home, even in new places. In my 27 years, I haven’t found any other feeling that comes close to those that I experienced on the road, directing the energy and attention of a room of people curious about me and my music. I’d say winning over listeners through passionate, emotive performance are the moments that stick out to me most. 

You’ve worked with K-pop artists like NCT’s JAEHYUN, EXO’s Lay, BLACKSWAN, AHOF, and NOWZ. Looking back, is there a track or a moment from these collaborations that stands out as especially memorable to you?

Hmmmm. I’d have to say that our songs with AHOF have perhaps stood out the most – for me, they signified and were an indicator of my continued commitment to KPOP, the countless hours I’d dedicated to the genre, and a confirmation that I was and am doing exactly what I’ve wanted to for quite some time. The relationship my ST4R team and I have developed with EL CAPITXN and his VENDORS team was on full display for the AHOF project, and I couldn’t be more proud of the work we have done together. Helping to debut a brand new group, to be a part of the mark they make on the genre and the world, is exactly why I love being a part of this amazing genre. It’s just a bonus that their debut was so well received.

You composed “Rendezvous,” the title track of AHOF’s debut album. What was your process in creating it, and what part of the experience excited you the most?

As our working relationship with EL CAPITXN deepened, he mentioned to us a new group he was developing that he really believed could be one of the future cornerstones of KPOP. Naturally, we were all ears, and when he brought out the track skeleton for “Rendezvous,” the ideas flowed instantly. We sat with all the information we had about the group – their formation and work on the survival show, the story they wanted to tell – and put our heads together to make something that could be their statement, their stamp as a new group. Seeing the song resonate so well with fans has been incredibly rewarding, and I can’t wait for their next project (which will have been released when this interview comes out!). 

When you’re working on a K-pop track compared to your own music, do you approach it differently?

In some ways, I definitely do, but in others, the process is strangely similar. I think part of the reason I gravitate so heavily towards KPOP is because of the creative similarities I find between how I approach music for myself and for groups and solo members in the genre. KPOP teams are wildly open to creativity and uniqueness, which is something I’ve always strived to achieve in my own artist project as well. Of course, the circles on the Venn diagram are different for every artist, KPOP or not, but the process feels similar: a pursuit of the balance of singularity from and unity with the music landscape of today. 

What has been the biggest challenge you’ve faced in your music career, and how did you overcome it?

The most trying time of my career in music thus far was something that affected musicians and creatives worldwide- the pandemic that swept the world in early 2020 coincided with the beginning of a momentum swirl for me as an artist. I had just finished two amazing opening tour slots (with Christian French and Ryan Caraveo), and I was about to join EDEN and Keshi on a world tour. My team and I had worked tirelessly to get to that point; every post on socials, every video, was in pursuit of reaching those bigger stages, and I finally had the opportunity to show more of the world who I was as an artist and what I could do. With a cancelled tour and a future filled with uncertainty in a rapidly changing world, I struggled immensely with what to do next.

Without the touring, my label was growing less and less interested in supporting my releases, and I had to recalibrate and refocus my energy. It was in these extremely challenging moments, where I couldn’t release music as an artist, that I remembered why I started this career in the first place: to make amazing songs with and for people that I believed in, even and especially if those people weren’t myself. A few months later, I found myself in my first KPOP camp, and the rest is history. My goals shifted entirely, and I haven’t really looked back since.

Your songwriting is known for its emotional honesty. Where do you usually find inspiration when writing lyrics?

Most all of my songwriting comes from lived experiences, my own or those of people I am close to. I think being a good songwriter is tied to being a good listener, whether that is listening to yourself, the people you care about, or even strangers that you meet. I often remind myself that music is often just a mirror for things going on in people’s lives, and if I’m feeling something, or my friend is, or someone I just met is, it’s pretty likely that other people out in the world are feeling it too.  

Your music has reached millions of streams worldwide. How does it feel knowing your songs connect with listeners across so many different cultures?

You know it’s sort of equal parts incredible and strange to me hahaha. I feel incredibly blessed that people around the world resonate with the songs I pour myself and all of my time into, and sometimes it’s still hard to wrap my head around. If anything, it serves as further proof that music really is the universal language, and it pushes people to explore new cultures beyond what they grew up with. I’ve been taking Korean lessons for almost a year now solely because of how much I fell in love with Kpop. The fans I met on a recent tour in Brazil with EL CAPITXN screamed Korean and English lyrics at the top of their lungs while only speaking Portuguese in their daily lives. I am incredibly grateful for the ways in which music (mine and everyone else’s) connects us, especially in a world like the one we exist in today. 

Looking back, what advice would you give your younger self starting out in the music industry?

I think that early on, without your own experience and wisdom that you can only gain over time, it’s easy to be swayed by the opinions of others, especially those who have “been in the business” or had previous success doing x, y, or z. If I could tell myself anything, it would be to 100% trust your gut instinct and really think long and hard before letting anyone else dilute your creativity or brand. Because I was steered away from putting out a lot of songs by people who “knew better,” and now listening back to those songs, they couldn’t have been more wrong. I just didn’t have the gall, or maybe more likely the experience, to trust myself fully. Those songs sitting in my dropbox still bang. Should’ve put them out lol. 

Which song from your discography would you suggest to someone new to your music, and why?

From my production discography, I’d point new listeners to “Earth” by SEVENTEEN sub-unit CxM that just came out at the end of September, or “he’s just not that into you” by Amelia Moore. I feel like they both showcase some of the sonics and lyrics that I feel represent “me” as a songwriter and producer! On the artist side, I’d recommend listening to “Endless” – it’s one of my favorite songs I’ve released to date, and feels like it is made out of the influence of lots of the other songs I have put out. 

The Korean wave is growing rapidly in India, and K-pop fans here are incredibly passionate. Is there anything you’d like to say to Indian fans who love and support the music?

As my team and I do our best to keep up with the goings-on of the KPOP world, we have been so excited to hear about the rapid expansion of fandom, artistry, and industry presence of KPOP in India. To us, it’s like “DUH!” India is a place of such incredible people – listeners and artists alike – and a deeply rooted and rich culture of the arts, so of course, the next big frontier and focus is there. We can’t wait to get out there to work just as soon as we can, and we are so thrilled that the industry has turned its eyes in the direction of India. It is unbelievably exciting to think about how India will change the trajectory of KPOP and global music forever. 

Finally, what’s next for you? Are there any projects or songs you’re especially excited for fans to hear?

So many exciting things on the horizon that I can’t wait for from the new XG, AHOF, and Enhypen albums, to a return to my artist project, to the development of a totally new group, there is so much to share in the coming months. I’d like to leave off with a giant thank you to anyone who listens to anything I work on, and an extra special shoutout to my day 1 Rence fans who have stuck around for this crazy, all over the place journey that a career in music is. Never linear, always forward. Love! 

Once again, we would like to express our heartfelt gratitude for your precious time and for sharing insights about your journey. Thank you so much. On behalf of the entire team at Hallyuism, we wish you all the best for your future and lots of love from India!

We hope you all loved reading this interview as much as we loved conducting it. Let us know your thoughts in the comments below!